Sunday, April 5, 2009
Independent Part 2
First of all I really want to thank everyone who emailed me to weigh in on this subject. I didn't get any responses from guys. If I do then I'll add them later but the women really weighed in and I'll share some of those comments anonymously like promised.
And a lot of you put me in the hot seat telling me to answer my own question which I will do :-)
First of all I'll let you know where this topic came to mind. I just saw "Hell Date" for the first time not too long ago. LOL my cousin already informed me that this show is old and has been on for awhile, but I just heard of it and watched it on Joost.com. One thing that stood out to me though is when a woman was about to go out on a date she usually said something like "I'm an independent woman." And that just struck me as a funny way to describe oneself because I automatically take independent as meaning single, and since they're on the show to get a date why use that term, that's obvious to me. Then I heard one guy saying he wanted an independent woman so I said maybe there's more to this term then I realize and decided to open it up for discussion.
So here's my own answers to my questions:
1. What is an independent woman in your definition? (don't look up the definition to copy paste nothing either and please don't look it up to get ideas). A woman who is currently single. She stands independently and pays her own bills and takes care of herself. She doesn't answer to anyone. You'll notice the song I added above. I honestly think it only applies to single non married women.
2. Would you like to be with an independent man or a man that tells you he's independent? If a man is single then it's obvious he's independent or at least should be. So if he's spouting he's independent then I'd question if he would be good in a relationship. There's nothing wrong with him being independent when I meet him but as the relationship progresses and if were to ever get to the marriage point then I wouldn't want someone who's bent on staying independent. I'd feel if he wants to continue making his own decisions independently then he doesn't need me. Not saying he can't make them but in a marriage I believe in making most decisions jointly. (LOL now if he wants to buy a snapple I don't think we need to discuss what flavor)
3. Should you still be considered independent if you are married? No I believe married couples should be interdependent. If you have to stand on your own one day (after your spouse dies) only then you should become independent. Until then in a marriage I'd suggest depending on each other.
4. And is this a turn off or turn on for men? (I'd better not be seeing women answering this either LOL) I'm a woman not a man so I'd have to ask one:-)
I'll have more questions/answers in the coming months for you guys to participate in. I really appreciate everyone's answers and honesty. And everyone who wrote me is either a close friend or relative and I have much love and respect for all of you. As promised I'm going to post your comments in my comments section below (BOTTOM RIGHT click on COMMENTS). I don't want to open a can of worms of arguing. You have to remember these are all people's personal opinions and I won't let my comment section be used as a means to berate or belittle someone else as we all come from different backgrounds and experiences which may influence our answers. Nor will I provide you with the email addresses of someone you may disagree with :-)
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1 comment:
COMMENT 1
Yes, I do consider myself an independent woman. I feel that I am doing things on my own and by myself. I pay my own bills, I pay for things that I want or need. I am dependent upon anyone or any man to take care or provide for me. I feel like I am in the place to ask a man "What can you do for me, what can you bring to the table?" I know it's not only financial, but that's a big part of it. I have been told by a male friend in the past that some women can be " 2 independent." he told me a man wants a strong woman, but not a woman so strong that she can't let her man be there for her. On the other hand a man doesn't want a weak woman that depends on him for everything , he sad it was a common ground in the middle.
COMMENT 2
1) My definition of an independent woman is a woman who can support herself financially and who doesn't NEED someone to make her feel whole or worth something.
2) an independent man. If he actually TELLS me he is independent then he is kinda saying he doesn't need me. The former statement connotates that he is a man PERCEIVED by others as independent.
3) yes because you can still be married and technically not NEED that person. For example, if a woman or man has his/her own income then if one of them leaves, they can hold it down by themselves.
4) both--depends on the man; i have found white collar men like to marry "independent" woman but blue collar men or broke men are turned off; which may be due to jealousy or them feeling like they are not wearing the pants in the relationship.
COMMENT 3
Well, Me and my opinionated self am sort of at odds with the word. I know that people may think Im setting womens lib back a few decades but I think this hyper "independence" among woman is crazy..if not a plot. Call me crazy, and it may be a little militant, but you really only hear this roar of independence within the community of black women. Our families are in a state of turmoil. The majority of black children are raised in single parent households. I honestly believe that this "independence" thing is a defense mechanism on behalf of black women in the face of these turbulent times with these black men. There is a shortage of viable brothers so we have adapted this "forget them" attitude.
The reality of the situation is that we absolutly NEED men and for more than sex! God created it this way. The man is the head of the house, and the provider for his family. Women are so busy trying to prove that they can do whatever the man does and there is noone there taking care of these kids!(i.e the womans 1st priority). I am in no way talking about the single mothers who have no choice but to hustle two jobs to make ends meet. I am a single mother myself so i know the struggle. But I am doing it out of neccessity not choice! I HATE the fact that I have to work like a hebrew slave and by the time I get home I cant even relax because now my daughter needs my attention. I have to make a CONSTANT effort not to be so impatient with her and let her act silly, and be loud, and ask a billion questions! I really want to say "BE QUIET, IM TIRED", but I know better. I have to just grin and bear it! But this is why so many women are letting BET and Nickelodeon raise their kids. And although i understand, it's not right! And this is all do to the father not doing his job and providing so we don't have to!
So for these "independent " women who CHOOSE to live like this,more power to them
...as long as they don't have kids! Because if you are at work and daddy is at work, who is home raising the baby? But it gets pushed on the BLACK community and only further divides us. We as black folks are bombarded with these negative images of the black family. Oprah (who I am NOT the biggest fan) just had a whole show talking about why black men and women can't get along and the feasability of interracial relationships among black women. She spent a hour basically trying to convince black women that we better look outside our race because black men have issues! This is constant propaganda to further beat the black man over his head and make him feel as if he is nothing in todays society. There were black men on the show who said that they ONLY date white women because black women were too pushy....what? Divide and conquor!
Although I think that is a crock, I do have to admit the word house wife is like a curse word to alot of black women! And this is nuts! I can't see any man actually liking a overly independent woman. If I can do everything as a woman (cook, clean, run my house, and make all the money) what do I need a man for ? And I would imagine any man worth his weight would feel the same way. Im not married(yet) but the man I am hoping to marry soon loves when i make him feel like he is needed. He loves to know that he is taking care of me to a certain extent. He doesn't completely because we have not decided to get married, but best believe when and if we make that decision there will be some changes! Don't get me wrong, I know he appreciates the fact that if need be I definately can hold my own. But just because I went to college, can earn a living just like him, that does not make me need him any less. Unfortunately in America, it almost takes two incomes to survive, but if there is anyway to forgoe it, Im sure it is a worthy investment. Your children will be much better of with a less irritated mommy, than with the latest greatest sneakers! But thats just me. Long story short....I think we are taking this "independent thing too far!
COMMENT 4
1. What is an independent woman in your definition? (don't look up the definition to copy paste nothing either and please don't look it up to get ideas) Back in the old days a woman stayed home with her parents and didn't leave the house until a guy came and asked to marry her. An independent women in my opinion, is a single (not married) woman that has the ability to take care of herself. She has goals and is working toward them, and she is not sitting idle waitting for someone to come along and take care of her. She is working, seving God and preparing herself for her husband. The problem comes when an attitude of independence exist and the women feels as though she doesn't need a man or anyone else. 2. Would you like to be with an independent man or a man that tells you he's independent? All single men should be indepandant and that should go without saying. If he is not than he is mearly a boy, because he needs to be taken care of like a child. It is necessary for a man to be independent before he is ready to be a husband. I could not be with a man that was not independent, however I would not want to be with somone who felt the need to proclaim that he is independent, because he would clearly have an attitude of independence and might be so independent that he would not be able to coexist with another person. So the direct answer is no I would not want to be with a man that told me he is independent. 3. Should you still be considered independent if you are married? No marreid couples are co-dependent on each other, they are partners who should always work together. But should something happen to the other both need to have the ability to be independent, or take care of the other.
COMMENT 5
1. What is an independent woman in your definition? (don't look up the definition to copy paste nothing either and please don't look it up to get ideas). An independent woman in my opinion is someone who makes her own decisions; she makes sure that she secures her own future. From my experience, she is looked upon as the type of person who if something were to happen to her spouse, she could carry on without missing a beat. I believe that an independent woman is confident in her abilities and she draws on that strength to make things happen.
An independent woman has qualities of harmony, balance, happiness, wisdom, generosity and is beautiful. (I got this from Suze Orman’s book 8 Qualities of a Wealthy Woman). You can of course correlate independence to building wealth.
2. Would you like to be with an independent man or a man that tells you he's independent? I don’t know how to answer this; however, I know that I don’t want to be with a man who has not proven himself worthy to be with me. I want someone who of course loves the Lord, because if that is in place, then I know he loves himself. I want someone who is independent of needing the advice or guidance from other people (sometimes this could be their dad, mother, aunt, female friend, etc). An independent man to me is confident in his abilities to provide for his family and he is in my opinion clearly able to detect and appreciate an independent woman. Who wants to be with a man who does not handle his responsibilities and is a burden to his wife? I have friends now who have to beg their spouses to contribute to paying bills, help raise the kids, take the trash out, clean up or do laundry. Both me and my husband are independent in nature; however, we work together as a team and respect each other. [I guess I need more information about how the word independent is being defined here, because the answer can be very broad].
3. Should you still be considered independent if you are married? Yes, I believe that you can still be considered independent if you are married; being independent does not mean that you disrespect your spouse and that the person doesn’t know what you are doing. My husband may not respect me if he thinks he can control me or that I am solely dependent on him for my existence; my independence is a quality that he recognized and respected early in our relationship and he knows that nothing is going to change in that aspect about me. Please note that I do give my husband the upmost respect; however, I have a mind of my own and I am able to pursue my own personal goals and aspirations in life.
4. And is this a turn off or turn on for men? I really don’t know what the answer is here, but if it is a turn off to any man for a woman to be independent, then I would have to question that man’s level of self-esteem and the confidence that he has in himself. Why would a man have a problem with a woman being independent? Why would a man only want someone who is dependent on them? I know my husband does not want a woman who is a doormat to him; we’ve talked about how disgusting it is for women to allow men to run all over them and use them.
Having a spouse that you respect, can walk side by side with through thick and thin and a person who if the situation calls for them to make “independent” decisions, to me is worth more than Gold.
COMMENT 6
Well, I just read your blog and guess what – I have NEVER “thought” about the term Independence. In my opinion, I would think about it as just being able to sustain my family if something happened to my spouse (i.e. financially independent). That being said, I should tell you that IF you have an understanding and compassionate loving spouse, this question should never arise. You automatically gain your so called “independence” / “freedom”! I know many people think they should be independent and not depend on anyone for anything. I do not buy that. I actually think that we women should depend on our husbands and vice versa. It makes both sides feel responsible.
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